@a4477 said in #50:
> In a few more minutes I have to go and I will be back after Shabbat so not sure I can continue to discuss now I will try after Shabbat
Look, whenever you want, let's playa 3 day match or 1 long enough to chat. outside here. Have a blessed Sabath.
I will tell you, truth is not only shocking but that much worse it makes one different than he was before once he knows the truth. I hope you and your family have peaceful 1 also the people of Gaza.
And piece by piece of proof is not Top secret you know? even Discord's InfoSec is full about it. USA knows all and other Nations also from before start. There is a bigger thing to happen....
What's the point of this debate? I quit reading because it seems highly unlikely that anybody will change his or her (quite certain) mind. It's a rare person who doesn't think that he or she sees the "real truth," and that those who disagree are simply watching no news, or the "wrong" news, and are simply unlearned and in the dark.
But let me make two points. FIRST, nobody should claim that what he or she happens to believe about any of this represents "a growing consensus." There is NO consensus here, on either side. Not remotely. None is on the horizon. And claiming to represent a consensus is either wishful thinking, uncontrolled by using any news source that doesn't provide preferred pablum, or else it is a mistaken attempt to use peer pressure to influence others.
SECOND, if some folks break the law, they should not pretend that they are being victimized when predictable, lawful consequences result. They should not demand to be brought vegan dinners at the scene of the crime. It appears that civil disobedience in 2024 looks a lot different from the civil disobedience that occurred "back in the day." Those who protested for civil rights long ago didn't demand that "the oppressor" furnish them with special dietary gifts and convenient accommodations on site. It's not the prom or a cruise ship, it's a protest: cowboy up.
I am utterly and completely in favor of free speech, and that especially includes the freedom to disagree with me. But I do not confuse the right to free speech with an imaginary "right" to violate the rights of others. I hope that most people will agree with that -- but I won't try to claim it's "the growing consensus."
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Kick the shite out of these anarchists. That’s what I think. And then kick them again for good measure. And again just to be sure.
Aren't students supposed to demonstrate, you ask?
Demonstration, in and of itself, is not automatically righteous. Sometimes, demonstrations can, at least theoretically, champion wrong-headed beliefs. People "demonstrated" in favor of Hitler in the 1930s. Were they "supposed" to do that? I'm not even sure what "supposed to" means in such a context.
But I'll state what I hope is obvious: "demonstrating" for Hitler would not be righteous. Given Hitler's fatherhood of the atrocious "Final Solution" -- which was simply the utterly evil and selfish murder of Jews -- I'll contend that demonstrating for him or his beliefs is not something rational, kindly folks are "supposed" to do, even if they are students.
Demonstration in support of a bad idea is just a tantrum or a social event. I'm not pointing a finger at anybody in particular when I say that. Honestly, I'm not. There are complex moral issues at play right now, and I cannot be certain that I am "right" about very many of them. So I'm not trying to cast all demonstrators in the role of fool. Furthermore, as I stated earlier, I am absolutely in favor of free speech (understanding that it's not the same as an unlimited license to bully others).
Nevertheless, I will always push back on any implication that protest and demonstration is simply what students are "supposed" to do without regard to a very careful examination of the righteousness and implications of the cause being supported.
What students are probably "supposed to do" is go to class, study and prepare themselves for living long and productive lives. The world is NOT ending. Many, many students thought the world was soon ending in the 1970s, too. Guess what. It didn't. But those students (and eventual dropouts) who spent several years acting like it was ending instead of learning how to successfully "adult" (used, increasingly, as a verb) might have later realized, at least dimly, that they'd wasted some chances that would not return.
@pinchpinpong said in #6:
> So you try to tell us and I knew it gonna blow wind this topic with many other answers before, that most are there camping and protesting because they don't know why or forced by some secretive union? There are grown up's here... Other countries, public demonstrations as well by some Union? Many Independent news if not all say same as well? But you say they were forced instead go play ps5 home in comfort etc? lol!
I am just saying about college experiences in India hee 90% protests are actually forced one . Like just today my college union leader is asking us to come for a rally tomorrow and it's compulsory but We don't even know for what purpose but I still won't come as usual because they need brains to catch me which they lack hehe
@HerkyHawkeye said in #8:
> Tin soldiers and Nixon coming....
We're finally on our own...
Free speech, I guess. As for me, I'm completely neutral on the whole debate of Israel vs Palestine.
